Tuesday, September 18, 2012

Second tournament with Daemons: thoughts on the list

Back here I discussed my thoughts for this list, and how I expected stuff to work.

Now I want to talk about what did/didn't work, what I might consider changing (though not much time to do so!), and hopefully get some feedback!

I had a few big questions using this list:

  • -Is 4 Troop units (of only 5 models, even worse!) enough?
  • -Is 4 FMC too many?
  • -Are units of 3 Flamers enough?
  • -Do the Princes/LOC need Breath? Might?

Unfortunately I didn't fight the kinds of armies I really expect to see most prevalent at the big GTs. I expect to see Necrons; MEQ with Guard Blobs; IG with their own Blobs or all-mech. I didn't fight anything with tons of shooting.

So, in a nut-shell, I didn't get the answers I was hoping for.

But, I do have more ideas.

So, first...Is 4 troop units of 5 models enough?

In the only game where my Horrors came in first, they were wiped out. BUT...a) objectives was the tertiary mission; b) most importantly, I was reckless with them and paid the price.

I think I could have deployed them far far away, even getting some out of LOS, and forced him to move away from his firebase to come for me. It would have ceded control of the table-middle to him, but would have not put me down on KP so easily so early.

In the other two missions, they were able to drop in unmolested as the opponents were for the most part more concerned about the parts of my army that were killing them, even though Objectives was the primary mission.

As of now I'm sticking with 4, there are no good Troop choices in the codex, so minimizing the suckage is best. While Horrors are the most expensive, I also think they're the ones that are most able to affect the battle (note the battle vs. Sean and the Orks, where they were able to kill stuff!) instead of sitting somewhere hoping to not die (I hate plaguebearers!).

Answer: Yes...maybe. It's so random with Daemons, it's hard to say. If  I can get them where I want, I'm pretty happy. If not, I'll lose. Stupid Daemonic Assault!

-Is 4 FMC too many?

I think the FMC in every game did the bulk of the heavy lifting. I expected it to be the screamers and flamers, but it was the big guys. Will the survive against a massively shooting list (I think of Stelek's ultra-shooty MSU GK with ~100 shots at 24"...), though the Ork list had a fair amount of shooting and that was weathered pretty well.

Against the Orks the FMC able to swoop quickly to the firebase were what got me the few KP I earned, and if things had gone another turn would have been able to finish off a decimated Boyz unit and get in to the Lobbas. No, I think 4 is just fine.

Could 3 work? Probably. You can add a lot for ~250 points...maybe load up to three units of six Screamers, 3 units of 5-6 Flamers. It might even be more powerful, but 4 seems to work, so I'm sticking with it!

Answer: No...maybe. 4 seems to be enough to really kill stuff and impact the game, particularly with the Shooting I have, but the things gained from going to 3 may make up for the loss.

-Are units of 3 Flamers enough?

I was actually a bit disappointed in the damage output of the flamers. What I said about them in the previous post really held true: 4-5 templates will wipe out a unit, 3 ALMOST wipes out a unit.

On the other hand, in the last game I dropped 6 templates on some (well spread out) Harlequin, and only killed 8...so maybe not that big a deal.

The one thing that really pushes me in to wanting more is that if I have 5-6 in a unit, if they lose a few to shooting the Overwatch is still pretty scary, at least to 'normal' units...giant blobs don't really care.

It's ironic, actually, that the giant blobs are really the things that I'm less inclined to go after with the flamers. Consider a well-spread out unit of Orks...if I can only get 3 boyz under the template, then a unit of 5 only kills 7-8. That's barely a quarter of the unit, and even 5 Flamers will probably die to their shoota fire.

Bottom line, though, in every match I felt like I wanted more Flamers.

Answer: No...not really. 3 drops them in to Distraction/suicide units. I hope for more

And last, -Do the Princes/LOC need Breath? Might?

Two questions really. I had a hard time deciding between Gaze and Breath. Breath is 10 points more, and I went with Gaze to save those points and to allow bashing from range without having to commit.

I think this was a good choice, as in all three games I was able to put fire on things from what would have been outside Breath range while staying safely away from things that I didn't want to get assaulted by should I get grounded. If it were free, I'd have both and use them both, but how I drop in, I want that range!

And Might? Yeah, I think that was a great investment. Wounding the SM Bikes on 3s; Vector Strikes wounding on 2s; Vector Strikes and melee causing ID to T3; meaner Hammer of Wrath. All things that I was grateful I had. Withouth Might, I would have lost game 3. Enough said!

Answer: No to Breath; Yes to might.

So where does that leave my list? I like everything about it except I want more flamers. I think 4 would be the ideal number for how I use them, so I'd need to free up 69 points...

Unless I drop something else that I like, I don't know how I'd do it. I could drop a Prince or the LOC, and add a lot more Screamers, Flamers, and Horrors...but I won't, because I like the dynamic of those 4 big mean meanies coming in!

Do you know that if Stelek were to shoot his whole army at one of my Princes, odds are the Prince is grounded but does not die? I like those odds...I'm keeping the FMC!
Feedback, thoughts, and anecdotes cordially invited!

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